tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post3153130048451930765..comments2024-03-24T20:16:30.097-07:00Comments on The Big Study: The Apparition at Knock Ireland, 1879.The Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-88626294414624931032020-11-08T13:20:27.367-08:002020-11-08T13:20:27.367-08:00The dress of the figures is very like the illustra...The dress of the figures is very like the illustration --- the main difference would be that the atmosphere was mostly dark sky and rain. <br /><br />The main thing for me about "Marian" apparitions is not whether they ARE Mary somehow, nor if some single "witness reports internally received messaging. The key interest for me is "How good is the evidence that there was an anomalistic manifestation at all?" or in the case of Lourdes, how good is the evidence that anyone who went there had a miraculous cure? ... and, as an aside, I have no idea what to make out of the Zeitoun claims. I've looked for a long time for truly independent credible support for those pictures and haven't found it. The Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-63079800147091726122020-11-07T16:56:26.620-08:002020-11-07T16:56:26.620-08:00I note that the figures were not self-identified; ...I note that the figures were not self-identified; people only assumed they were Mary, Joseph, and ... someone else. How were they dressed? Did they appear the way these saints are usually depicted? The painting depicts a crown, a mitre, and a book. Were they actually mentioned by the witnesses? As you suggested, it sounds like three extremely well-made images from somewhere else. However, in my experience, it is unusual to see Mary and Joseph depicted with a third adult.<br />I should also mention that the classic apparitions at Zeitoun in Egypt involved several nights of strange lights on the church, lights which occasionally produced a vaguely humanoid figure. Because the church was dedicated to the Virgin Mary, people assumed the figure was her, but there was not real evidence to that effect.<br />In the other Marian apparitions we also have the strange phenomenon - not easily reconcilable with either a psychological or supernatural explanation - in which the apparition does not identify herself until much later, and then usually just allusively. Thus, St Bernadette always referred to her vision as "the Lady", and only towards the end did the Lady say "I am the Immaculate Conception" which, as the church authorities were quick to point out, is bad theology. Malcolm Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00672612354161787023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-66258994501893673902014-12-03T18:37:13.730-08:002014-12-03T18:37:13.730-08:00Given the actual facts as reported and the length ...Given the actual facts as reported and the length of time and the numbers of people viewing this from many angles and distances, to say that this was a simple "Magic Lantern" projection is, frankly, laughable. To suggest this "explanation" is more indicative of someone desperately trying NOT to believe something than a rational attempt at a solution. The fundamental errors in this idea are massive. Magic Lanterns are not holographic projectors but project onto surfaces of some sort. The witnesses went right up to this thing hanging in the air at a distance from the chapel wall and placed their hands within its light. Some witnesses viewed this from the side and some from the front. The light was significantly powerful and bright. Within the apparitions some light-forms or sparkles moved according to a few witnesses. The thing lasted for hours. All sorts of people saw the thing, and describing them as ignorant peasants to wave off their testimonies is off-base regardless. I am not opposed to reasonable attempts to solve mysteries, but I am not going to casually sit by and nod while speculations which do not address the facts, the full facts, of matters are broached as if "well that's that, nothing to see here." The Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-81543251173825950022014-12-01T15:04:41.105-08:002014-12-01T15:04:41.105-08:00The priest was known to have a 'magic lantern&...The priest was known to have a 'magic lantern' a common slide was of the 'holy family' and it is highly likely that the apparition was in reality someone using the lantern . My father who came from Mayo told me all this was known at the time but sensibility meant they didn't want to offend the locals many of whom were just simple country folk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-18216668675843852842012-06-11T15:16:05.061-07:002012-06-11T15:16:05.061-07:00You could be correct. It is one not unreasonable p...You could be correct. It is one not unreasonable possibility.The Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-16261381222790788522012-06-11T13:33:37.214-07:002012-06-11T13:33:37.214-07:00I have also been fascinated by the apparition at K...I have also been fascinated by the apparition at Knock, more so than other more famous and spectacular apparitions like Fatima, which I believe is genuine. Knock is the only one in which there was no message, which puts it in a category by itself. When there is no readily discernible message, you must look at the context. In this case, the village of Knock was in the geographic center of a county that was hit by a mild (by Irish standards) famine that same year. This was after year after year of other famines starting around 1870. The Irish people were suffering, and then comes Father Cavanagh, offering 100 masses for the souls in purgatory during this latest famine. Offering prayers for the dead is a selfless act of Christian charity, especially when you consider that they could have offered 100 masses for a good crop that year, or something else that would have benefitted the people directly. Instead they chose to help those who can no longer help themselves. I believe God rewarded the good people of Knock and their priest with this apparition which may not have had any meaning other than "I have heard your prayers, good and faithful servants!" Thank you, Professor, for this thoughtful blog.Andersonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-69887979355419967392012-04-17T15:23:45.733-07:002012-04-17T15:23:45.733-07:00While I generally am in line with your comments, p...While I generally am in line with your comments, please remember that this blog is my home and that I am a Catholic, even if a quite liberal one who does not hop when the administrative leader sneezes. Referring to my Church and myself as "idol worshippers" is not appreciated, and I'd expect guests in one's home to behave better.The Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-23475187692633720602012-04-15T10:03:28.861-07:002012-04-15T10:03:28.861-07:00"I am a Scientist...I am a debunker"...I..."I am a Scientist...I am a debunker"...I apply Science to the things I cannot explain by attaching an abstract variable...or a quantum physics catch all...then I claim dominion over the rest of you"...sort of like the Pope and Pharisees ..or some other idol worshipers...who too limited their brains by only using one sector of them...Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804708450647241208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-59855882908226161382011-05-11T08:02:09.217-07:002011-05-11T08:02:09.217-07:00All ideas are welcome in the discussion of possibl...All ideas are welcome in the discussion of possible solutions to apparently mysterious events. In this case a mirage seems on the surface to be an option, but upon further thought is untenable. Remember that the people came right up to the images which appeared three-dimensional and the elder lady stuck her hands and head right through it --- NOT mirage behavior. Also, because mirages occur in real time, and not a delay mechanism, whatever was the source of the mirage imagery would have to be in bright lighting at the same time. Note that Malta was in deeper darkness vs. Ireland --- you'd need to find something in the Atlantic Ocean or at least on the most westerly piece of Ireland to try to make such a concept fly. But this is just not a scientific possibility for this particular imagery anyway, so we need to look elsewhere for a solution.The Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-82527419140816239352011-05-10T23:44:10.636-07:002011-05-10T23:44:10.636-07:00Hey, I had a thought that this could be an example...Hey, I had a thought that this could be an example of a mirage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage<br /><br />In Malta the villages will hold a fiesta and parade and display their religious statuary outside. While it was dark and rainy in Cork it would be a warm evening in Malta. A freak weather event could have led to the image of the statues being reflected back to Earth in Ireland. The figures would seem to move as the light changed. It could even explain the 'altar with a lamb' as they build ornate structures in the square and the 'angels' would be the Maltese festival-goers. <br /><br />I wonder whether records remain to find out which towns were holding fiestas on that date? It might be possible to find a Church in Malta that has this grouping of figures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-67719887294715786712011-05-01T14:09:55.380-07:002011-05-01T14:09:55.380-07:00I obviously second your attitude about science and...I obviously second your attitude about science and the spiritual element of creation. This blog is about 50% about "making that case", as any reading of the earlier half of the posts can see. In that sense Catherine Crowe is a sort of godmother of this. Knock however leaves me puzzled. As an apparition, it doesn't "do" anything --- and I mean more in the way of "message" than anything else. It can be argued that the image is enough. But the thought lingers in my mind of some other sort of "mechanism" for this incident, like a displaced space or an overlap with something parallel or something akin to the Irish concept of "The Stray Sod".The Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811807639219365621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2019724693487670016.post-19794964613880184212011-04-30T21:11:15.985-07:002011-04-30T21:11:15.985-07:00I am a scientist who at one time tried to lump all...I am a scientist who at one time tried to lump all these types of apparitions as simple mass hallucinations/hysteria. However, after much research, I now see that the few recognized apparitions may indeed be worthy of belief. If we are asked to believe in the existence of ufos, cryptids and other anomalous subjects based on evidence, why then should the topic of religious anomalies be excluded? The Church itself is an apparition's harshest critic, so when an apparition is given the stamp of approval it is only after a long and exhaustive analysis of the facts. I now see that science does not have to exclude religion but can enhance it as it has in my situation.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11310178525592058423noreply@blogger.com